Home‎ > ‎

institutionsvscreativity

INSTITUTIONS

vs

Creativity



I have a difficult time responding your email simply because I've never said most of this before.  Institutions, by their very nature, exist for themselves no matter what they tell you about it. It's an ancient way of being: tribal even. Being with and among others who share a passion about something that is transformational or whatever.  It's about making life and the world a better place to be. Lofty aspirations, etc.  You get the drift.
 
The fact of gathering means a loss of individuation.  I must conform in order to be part of it all. The tribe isn't a tribe if I'm not behaving and believing according their value system. The passion ceases when I realize that I'm powerless over my life and yours.  Even more devastating when I come to grasp the depth of my own profound ignorance. That's where my friend Rob found himself after decades of Cistercian life. Even THEY don't possess the degree of consciousness necessary to live beyond tribal awareness and worry about maintaining identity, i.e., teachings, way of life, property, money, etc.
 
What we've been talking about for years is what the Zen folks call "beginner's mind" the capacity to see each life and each moment as revealing a stream of energy from the future.  Institutions take insights like that and swallow them up into another five year plan for aggrandizement. It all becomes "improvement" instead of an invitation to let go and realize that we're being lifted from the burdens of the past in order to serve something alive and loving.  The living moment right now has never existed and will never exist again. I can't stuff it away into a cubby hole from the past no matter how hard I try. 
 
I can no longer sing about Christian soldiers marching to war with German choral tunes helping me along.  I can't always summon the divine name as a He any longer. As a presider at liturgy I'm always code switching and emptying the language for myself so that I can surrender the moment and not try to control it with more triumphalist bull shit that has lost its meaning. I don't believe Jesus died for anything that religious people think he died.  He lived to show everyone that nothing was wrong with creation: we are limited not by sin but by a limited imagination that can't embrace "docta ignorantia" as an opening to the infinite and creative. It breaks the religious trance and shatters it to bits. Jesus understood this and we don't.  He doesn't attempt to reassemble the broken pieces because he knows it's futile and serves a world that doesn't exist -- a world whose moment is over.
 
Your painting reminds me that the moment is living. . . all moments.  The beautiful is all we can offer.
 
This has turned into a treatise. Sorry for the length.
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/28/2015 12:03:03 A.M. US Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
the institutional aspect -I found when  wanting to join Carthusians, Cistercians - it is mostly worshiping of  their own past, traditions and culture - assumed by the to be God-  that aspect takes over after a while , rules, regulations become all - replacing all else

I am looking for a word that I cannot find anywhere.

On facebook was a group for artists - like drawing, marks on paper - FB closed y account, I cant find the word anywhere. I then found and article on Wikipedia about it and told you about it -

it is not semiotics - that I know well.

Have again, like last year tick bite - badly affecting me the past few weeks, did not sleep for 2 weeks because ofthe cortisone tablets - the tiredness wants me to lie down all the time, but I cant lie and do nothing, cant sleep - my back always very sore from the cortisone etc - so i just get up and paint literally nonstop, night and day.

Big thoughts on the community of A -  Bishops always tried to encourage orders, communities to come to their diocese -  especially RC and Orthodox -  I thought this new thing could be excellent for most Anglican/Episcop dioceses to create /commence similar small groups/orders - bishops leading it - as orders is like a active/powerhouse center for spirituality things  --  ???

j

On 2015-10-27 05:48 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
As long as they don't fuck it all up with institutional freight and forget that it's something Holy.
 
In a message dated 10/27/2015 11:47:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
YES the French have! very glad the  AB of  Cof E became involved as he is after a world religious leader -

both locals working as well as others from across the world - for a year. So many young nowadays take off 1 year after school - excellent for someone more spiritual

On 2015-10-27 04:16 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
This is wonderful.  Don't the French have something like this in Paris?    ~ d
 
In a message dated 10/27/2015 10:10:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
http://stanselm.org.uk/


THANKS!!  I hope you have this kept for printing - at least a pamphlet - contains so MUCH.

I respond only to a few of the many things pointed to -

Yes, I often think of your Cist. friend - when I think of my visits to the orders and wished to enter.

They became all about their THEIR customs and Traditions - as if written in golf, on stone like Moses' 10 Commandments.

AND as you say beginners mind - with which all orders started. One newish one was near me in the French countryside - an ordinary peasant woman - now 50 years it - institutionalized and large.

What I want to say - like churches did with 'what Jesus said/lived'  Islam to Mohammed, Buddhism to Buddha's life/words etc

orders do the same with the spiritual experiences of their founders -  I frequently visited Oxford for the SSJE .  met Martin there as monk - I think you met him, he and his partner lived in the US SSJE where he was prioor/abbot, then I saw he left to be a parish/secular priest.- now all dead and in old age homes. The Oxford Movement, High Church of C and their spirituality really attracted me.

Anyway all the  spirituality, actions etc from founders a turned into institutions - why I studied sociology -

all scientific insights, new art, music etc  eventually become accepted

when institutionalized.

The few serious artist - and when I tried to be/write as philosopher -  and am sure from all arts and sciences

it is fight to have your new approach, ideas, work  accepted -  Van Gogh, like many serious artists never sold anything ion their life time - the selling puts me off and I dont paint to sell - because I MUST - I create myself. my life, existing, being alive - perceive, understand and relate to and just in the universe -    when I paint.  Its not the selling thats important - it shows they were not accepted and understood.  All the ones that did sell to US billionaires Twombly, Expressionists etc -  that didnt mean people grasped their work - they only had too much money and love being involved with the arts.

suppose is exhausting, but is both free -   I am not present when I paint, like water flows, plants grow, etc -  it just is -  now that I have the techniques and know how -  that I dont have to think about as all became  me -  my subconscious.

Anyway my point in talking about this creativity, freedom etc

it occurs in terms of existing norms of art and cultural practices -

and one must draw the thin line between working in terms of that tradition, but not becoming the tradition.

The art world, art market, money etc  swallow un[ artists and restrict them - all the famous names DamiEN hISRT,  jEFF kOONS, ai WEIWEI - SORRY COMPUTER DID THIS -  etc -  they later create the work that sells - many millions. And all of them have MANY people working for them creating their work for them.  Rothko already - in the 50's etc  had studio assistants to paint his work.   From the 3 massive brown only paintings -  a RC chapel was built by some RC billionaire couple  for the 3 - now an ecumenical chapel.  Anyway, 2 of the 3 he did not paint ONE brush stroke and the 3rd one - almost did not touch.

My point all creative activities, like spirituality , spiritual experiences are swallowed up by society - or certain institutions - the art world, collectors, etc  - orders, churches, etc - then those things are made acceptable, TAMED,  and it takes a massive effort for Thomas Merton, a serious young seminarian or novice,  a serious artist, creative thinking  scientist, composer etc ---  to walk the tine line

by working in an established discourse/tradition/norms/social and cultural practice

and find, create new ways to express his new insights.

sorry for ranting my shit

but you touched on a crucial point for all creativity in all spheres of life -

churches, other religious institutions are as bad at killing off spirituality.  When in the UK near churches I tried to go and that was fine, but as soon as I became too involved, student, priest, parishioner - everything  were turned into rules -  expressed and lived through the rules of institutions -  right believe, right prayers etc.

Myself to - cannot think of the Godhead as man or even person - many universes?

thanks

sorry I went off on my own pre-occupations






On 2015-10-28 02:14 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
I have a difficult time responding your email simply because I've never said most of this before.  Institutions, by their very nature, exist for themselves no matter what they tell you about it. It's an ancient way of being: tribal even. Being with and among others who share a passion about something that is transformational or whatever.  It's about making life and the world a better place to be. Lofty aspirations, etc.  You get the drift.
 
The fact of gathering means a loss of individuation.  I must conform in order to be part of it all. The tribe isn't a tribe if I'm not behaving and believing according their value system. The passion ceases when I realize that I'm powerless over my life and yours.  Even more devastating when I come to grasp the depth of my own profound ignorance. That's where my friend Rob found himself after decades of Cistercian life. Even THEY don't possess the degree of consciousness necessary to live beyond tribal awareness and worry about maintaining identity, i.e., teachings, way of life, property, money, etc.
 
What we've been talking about for years is what the Zen folks call "beginner's mind" the capacity to see each life and each moment as revealing a stream of energy from the future.  Institutions take insights like that and swallow them up into another five year plan for aggrandizement. It all becomes "improvement" instead of an invitation to let go and realize that we're being lifted from the burdens of the past in order to serve something alive and loving.  The living moment right now has never existed and will never exist again. I can't stuff it away into a cubby hole from the past no matter how hard I try. 
 
I can no longer sing about Christian soldiers marching to war with German choral tunes helping me along.  I can't always summon the divine name as a He any longer. As a presider at liturgy I'm always code switching and emptying the language for myself so that I can surrender the moment and not try to control it with more triumphalist bull shit that has lost its meaning. I don't believe Jesus died for anything that religious people think he died.  He lived to show everyone that nothing was wrong with creation: we are limited not by sin but by a limited imagination that can't embrace "docta ignorantia" as an opening to the infinite and creative. It breaks the religious trance and shatters it to bits. Jesus understood this and we don't.  He doesn't attempt to reassemble the broken pieces because he knows it's futile and serves a world that doesn't exist -- a world whose moment is over.
 
Your painting reminds me that the moment is living. . . all moments.  The beautiful is all we can offer.
 
This has turned into a treatise. Sorry for the length.
 
 

I can no longer sing about Christian soldiers marching to war with German choral tunes helping me along.  I can't always summon the divine name as a He any longer. As a presider at liturgy I'm always code switching and emptying the language for myself so that I can surrender the moment and not try to control it with more triumphalist bull shit that has lost its meaning. I don't believe Jesus died for anything that religious people think he died.  He lived to show everyone that nothing was wrong with creation: we are limited not by sin but by a limited imagination that can't embrace "docta ignorantia"


doctrines and dogmas - religious terms for saying something must become institutionalized

so that they are then accepted, acceptable

and can be taught, learned and understood

all discourses/social practices, art, science, religion have their doctrines, rule books,  catechisms -  and practitioners and teachers do not even know that -  and what they do and do to those subjects

 as an opening to the infinite and creative. It breaks the religious trance and shatters it to bits. Jesus understood this and we don't.  He doesn't attempt to reassemble the broken pieces because he knows it's futile and serves a world that doesn't exist -- a world whose moment is over

YES!!! that is also how I feel about creation -  whey I understand a tiny bit of Jesus, Beethoven, Buddha etc  from the inside out

as I had to peel off many layers of all that I was socialized in while being made human

from personal insights/life I can grasp a bit of what they also tried to do

why I see them as my soul mates -  Paul Klee, Beethoven, Mozart


Above you touched on MANY essential things

not just religious life

but all areas of human existence

I found I had to study sociology when I realized what communities, groups of all sorts, societies, countries, cultures , institutions -  social structures

do to all new ideas, thoughts, etc

like to Jesus



all the things that you say you must transform to be able to do them

the problem -   things must be presented to people/done so that they are able to relate to them'
in existing terms

and those norms of expressions, standards of doing so that people are able to understand and make sense of what you say and do -


they can stifle things, institutionalize them

same with painting -

I thought endlessly on the religious monk think for decades and also in philosophy - new things must be said in old ways, logic and ways so that they can be grasped

newer art much be expressed in ways that people are used to.







On 2015-10-28 02:14 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
I can no longer sing about Christian soldiers marching to war with German choral tunes helping me along.  I can't always summon the divine name as a He any longer. As a presider at liturgy I'm always code switching and emptying the language for myself so that I can surrender the moment and not try to control it with more triumphalist bull shit that has lost its meaning. I don't believe Jesus died for anything that religious people think he died.  He lived to show everyone that nothing was wrong with creation: we are limited not by sin but by a limited imagination that can't embrace "docta ignorantia" as an opening to the infinite and creative. It breaks the religious trance and shatters it to bits. Jesus understood this and we don't.  He doesn't attempt to reassemble the broken pieces because he knows it's futile and serves a world that doesn't exist -- a world whose moment is over


I started posting my stuff on instagram

the place to show your art nowadays

I created new  groups to post them to

some of them

new aesthetics

anti art

anti- anti art

post minimalism etc

anarchist art

revolutionary art

etc etc

Then I posted this little thing in different forms

I'm trying, as always,  to warn people - be careful what you do with my stuff,

how you interpret them etc

bring your life and your construction of reality to my work and create encounters

Google for New Aesthetics - they try to express that as well

I did different ones of these - so that people dont turn  the one into some gospel,an icon for a new movement









On 2015-10-28 02:14 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
I have a difficult time responding your email simply because I've never said most of this before.  Institutions, by their very nature, exist for themselves no matter what they tell you about it. It's an ancient way of being: tribal even. Being with and among others who share a passion about something that is transformational or whatever.  It's about making life and the world a better place to be. Lofty aspirations, etc.  You get the drift.
 
The fact of gathering means a loss of individuation.  I must conform in order to be part of it all. The tribe isn't a tribe if I'm not behaving and believing according their value system. The passion ceases when I realize that I'm powerless over my life and yours.  Even more devastating when I come to grasp the depth of my own profound ignorance. That's where my friend Rob found himself after decades of Cistercian life. Even THEY don't possess the degree of consciousness necessary to live beyond tribal awareness and worry about maintaining identity, i.e., teachings, way of life, property, money, etc.
 
What we've been talking about for years is what the Zen folks call "beginner's mind" the capacity to see each life and each moment as revealing a stream of energy from the future.  Institutions take insights like that and swallow them up into another five year plan for aggrandizement. It all becomes "improvement" instead of an invitation to let go and realize that we're being lifted from the burdens of the past in order to serve something alive and loving.  The living moment right now has never existed and will never exist again. I can't stuff it away into a cubby hole from the past no matter how hard I try. 
 
I can no longer sing about Christian soldiers marching to war with German choral tunes helping me along.  I can't always summon the divine name as a He any longer. As a presider at liturgy I'm always code switching and emptying the language for myself so that I can surrender the moment and not try to control it with more triumphalist bull shit that has lost its meaning. I don't believe Jesus died for anything that religious people think he died.  He lived to show everyone that nothing was wrong with creation: we are limited not by sin but by a limited imagination that can't embrace "docta ignorantia" as an opening to the infinite and creative. It breaks the religious trance and shatters it to bits. Jesus understood this and we don't.  He doesn't attempt to reassemble the broken pieces because he knows it's futile and serves a world that doesn't exist -- a world whose moment is over.
 
Your painting reminds me that the moment is living. . . all moments.  The beautiful is all we can offer.
 
This has turned into a treatise. Sorry for the length.
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/28/2015 12:03:03 A.M. US Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
the institutional aspect -I found when  wanting to join Carthusians, Cistercians - it is mostly worshiping of  their own past, traditions and culture - assumed by the to be God-  that aspect takes over after a while , rules, regulations become all - replacing all else

I am looking for a word that I cannot find anywhere.

On facebook was a group for artists - like drawing, marks on paper - FB closed y account, I cant find the word anywhere. I then found and article on Wikipedia about it and told you about it -

it is not semiotics - that I know well.

Have again, like last year tick bite - badly affecting me the past few weeks, did not sleep for 2 weeks because ofthe cortisone tablets - the tiredness wants me to lie down all the time, but I cant lie and do nothing, cant sleep - my back always very sore from the cortisone etc - so i just get up and paint literally nonstop, night and day.

Big thoughts on the community of A -  Bishops always tried to encourage orders, communities to come to their diocese -  especially RC and Orthodox -  I thought this new thing could be excellent for most Anglican/Episcop dioceses to create /commence similar small groups/orders - bishops leading it - as orders is like a active/powerhouse center for spirituality things  --  ???

j

On 2015-10-27 05:48 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
As long as they don't fuck it all up with institutional freight and forget that it's something Holy.
 
In a message dated 10/27/2015 11:47:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
YES the French have! very glad the  AB of  Cof E became involved as he is after a world religious leader -

both locals working as well as others from across the world - for a year. So many young nowadays take off 1 year after school - excellent for someone more spiritual

On 2015-10-27 04:16 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
This is wonderful.  Don't the French have something like this in Paris?    ~ d
 
In a message dated 10/27/2015 10:10:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:




painting=a.jpg


painting=ab.jpg


painting=abox.jpg


painting=aboxc.jpg


painting=aboxcd.jpg


painting=aboxcde.jpg


painting=aboxcdef.jpg


painting=aboxcdefg.jpg


painting=aboxcdefgh.jpg


painting=aboxcdefghi.jpg


painting=aboxcdefghij.jpg


painting=aboxcdefghijk.jpg


painting=aboxcdefghijkl.jpg
YES

I always remember the kind of RC you mention growing up in

I said yes and amen to people around me at school,  university, church

created personas for them foe social interaction, study, degrees, work

but  I always had my own mind in religion, art , phil etc

I selected what is 'truthful'. meaningful

wrote the shit required for exams etc.

But my real insights, thinking,  perceptions , experiences I kept to myself

for my writing son philosophy, spirituality,  and by painting.

RC  the spiritual aspect is what I lived

aspects of some saints

but in the here and now as something concrete,

at whatever I am, do, is in the one present moment when I am alive.

To remain myself  I could not work as priest or become a monk

as I had to become institutionalized - I tried, over and over again,

institutions   (their norms, customs, traditions) of religion, art, science, philosophy etc  are the gods of those cultural practices  -

false gods to me -

so I became a lone underachiever, outsider in all those cultural practices

but remain myself - always open ended  and not for sale for money, prestige, whatever

On 2015-10-28 04:46 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
No, John. Don't stop the rant.  I have to keep reminding myself that theology mirrors science that mirrors theology.  Academically giving rise to one another along with philosophy and all the disciplines that we hold dear.  It's taken me a lifetime to realize that each "religious" step I take is supposed to be about being better than I am now.  It's all about guilt relief, binding anxiety of self and others, and the whole myth of self-improvement. There is, in my life, no sense of grace of self-acceptance.  That's one of the joys of growing up Jansenist, I guess    And, yes.  I will keep a copy of this.  Ties in with a lot of work I'm doing with history.
 
In a message dated 10/28/2015 10:29:27 A.M. US Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
THANKS!!  I hope you have this kept for printing - at least a pamphlet - contains so MUCH.

I respond only to a few of the many things pointed to -

Yes, I often think of your Cist. friend - when I think of my visits to the orders and wished to enter.

They became all about their THEIR customs and Traditions - as if written in golf, on stone like Moses' 10 Commandments.

AND as you say beginners mind - with which all orders started. One newish one was near me in the French countryside - an ordinary peasant woman - now 50 years it - institutionalized and large.

What I want to say - like churches did with 'what Jesus said/lived'  Islam to Mohammed, Buddhism to Buddha's life/words etc

orders do the same with the spiritual experiences of their founders -  I frequently visited Oxford for the SSJE .  met Martin there as monk - I think you met him, he and his partner lived in the US SSJE where he was prioor/abbot, then I saw he left to be a parish/secular priest.- now all dead and in old age homes. The Oxford Movement, High Church of C and their spirituality really attracted me.

Anyway all the  spirituality, actions etc from founders a turned into institutions - why I studied sociology -

all scientific insights, new art, music etc  eventually become accepted

when institutionalized.

The few serious artist - and when I tried to be/write as philosopher -  and am sure from all arts and sciences

it is fight to have your new approach, ideas, work  accepted -  Van Gogh, like many serious artists never sold anything ion their life time - the selling puts me off and I dont paint to sell - because I MUST - I create myself. my life, existing, being alive - perceive, understand and relate to and just in the universe -    when I paint.  Its not the selling thats important - it shows they were not accepted and understood.  All the ones that did sell to US billionaires Twombly, Expressionists etc -  that didnt mean people grasped their work - they only had too much money and love being involved with the arts.

suppose is exhausting, but is both free -   I am not present when I paint, like water flows, plants grow, etc -  it just is -  now that I have the techniques and know how -  that I dont have to think about as all became  me -  my subconscious.

Anyway my point in talking about this creativity, freedom etc

it occurs in terms of existing norms of art and cultural practices -

and one must draw the thin line between working in terms of that tradition, but not becoming the tradition.

The art world, art market, money etc  swallow un[ artists and restrict them - all the famous names DamiEN hISRT,  jEFF kOONS, ai WEIWEI - SORRY COMPUTER DID THIS -  etc -  they later create the work that sells - many millions. And all of them have MANY people working for them creating their work for them.  Rothko already - in the 50's etc  had studio assistants to paint his work.   From the 3 massive brown only paintings -  a RC chapel was built by some RC billionaire couple  for the 3 - now an ecumenical chapel.  Anyway, 2 of the 3 he did not paint ONE brush stroke and the 3rd one - almost did not touch.

My point all creative activities, like spirituality , spiritual experiences are swallowed up by society - or certain institutions - the art world, collectors, etc  - orders, churches, etc - then those things are made acceptable, TAMED,  and it takes a massive effort for Thomas Merton, a serious young seminarian or novice,  a serious artist, creative thinking  scientist, composer etc ---  to walk the tine line

by working in an established discourse/tradition/norms/social and cultural practice

and find, create new ways to express his new insights.

sorry for ranting my shit

but you touched on a crucial point for all creativity in all spheres of life -

churches, other religious institutions are as bad at killing off spirituality.  When in the UK near churches I tried to go and that was fine, but as soon as I became too involved, student, priest, parishioner - everything  were turned into rules -  expressed and lived through the rules of institutions -  right believe, right prayers etc.

Myself to - cannot think of the Godhead as man or even person - many universes?

thanks

sorry I went off on my own pre-occupations

Currently working for the bishop as what I call his "loose canon" sent out on his behalf to do short-term work that is difficult.  Right now I'm in a tiny town of Lawrenceville, VA, that once was prosperous but not is no longer  The southern part of the state is going derelict:  railroading is gone that used to carry cash crops of cotton and tobacco.  There are a cluster of churches that are dying for lack of membership. Lawrenceville once had a fine historic Black Episcopal college that folded about four years ago and now leaves 40 buildings standing empty and for sale.  The town is mostly empty store fronts.
 
I never tell  folks what I'm up to.  It's just that I do things differently from their previous (dull) clergy.  I tell them I don't preach sermons - I paint them in the air.  It works.  Can you imagine a church that seats maybe 150 in its heyday with 14 for Easter?   I've drifted off topic.

you see

what, how my work is

no rules how to view etc

perhaps what Jesus, Buddha etc

hoped to do in encounters

all the same  art, religion, science, daily life.
music etc

just different  discourses and traditions

my work demands of people to become themselves - whatever that may be at one moment and changing all the time

why I believe there is mileage in painting - few serious artists do

they all do installations, performance art etc

installations -  threw rubbish in a gallery, your own bed, tables, chairs,  turn it into a shop, bakery, whorehouse etc -

one young women showed and walked around with the mattress she has sex on

another threw her dirty underwear used condoms etc in the gallery

another goes naked across Europe - art galleries in big cities ask people to be photographed with her naked

BUT I believe I must develop, endlessly, painting as it can still have meaning




On 2015-10-28 05:08 PM, BigShowRev@aol.com wrote:
Very like a Jesus moment for me. 
 
In a message dated 10/28/2015 10:48:41 A.M. US Eastern Daylight Time, paintingsu@gmail.com writes:
bring your life and your construction of reality to my work and create encounters
Comments